Episode Description
In this episode of the Profits on Purpose podcast, host Nate Littlewood speaks with Khushboo Saraf, founder and CEO of Lattooland, a children's toy brand. Khushboo shares her journey from a stable career in finance and product management at Amazon to launching her own business during the pandemic. The conversation explores the challenges of entrepreneurship, cultural differences between India and the US, the importance of financial literacy, and the emotional landscape of the child toy industry. Khushboo emphasizes the significance of purpose in her work and the personal growth she has experienced as a founder.
Key Takeaways
- Khushboo's journey from finance to entrepreneurship was inspired by her motherhood.
- Lattooland was born out of a need for safe, sensory toys for children.
- Cultural differences between India and the US impact business practices.
- Effective communication and processes are key to managing a remote team.
- Prioritization is crucial for founders juggling multiple responsibilities.
- Financial management changes significantly when transitioning from employee to entrepreneur.
- The child toy industry requires a focus on safety and developmental appropriateness.
- Product strategy should balance depth and breadth to cater to evolving customer needs.
- Financial literacy is essential for founders to make informed decisions.
- Inventory management can pose significant challenges for startups.
See More from Khushboo and Lattooland
Listen to the full episode to discover how Khushboo's experiences can inspire and guide you on your entrepreneurial journey. Don't forget to subscribe for more insightful conversations!
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Transcript
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00:00 Introduction to Purpose-Driven Entrepreneurship
03:09 The Birth of Lattooland: A Mother's Journey
05:56 Cultural Insights: India vs. US Business Practices
09:04 Managing a Remote Team Effectively
12:00 Navigating Priorities as a Founder
14:57 Financial Evolution: From Employee to Entrepreneur
18:04 The Emotional Landscape of Child Toy Industry
21:01 Product Strategy: Depth vs. Breadth
24:00 The Importance of Financial Literacy for Founders
27:08 Cash Flow Management and Inventory Challenges
31:07 Facing Adversity: The Flood Incident
34:23 Resilience in Leadership: Picking Yourself Up
36:29 The Power of Purpose in Entrepreneurship
38:31 Personal Evolution: The Journey of Self-Discovery
41:20 Cultural Insights: Lessons from Indian Entrepreneurship
44:25 Mental Health and Burnout: Unlearning to Thrive
46:15 Vision and Legacy: What Lattooland Stands For
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Nate (00:06)
Welcome to the Profits on Purpose podcast where we explore the journeys of purpose driven founders and the financial strategies that have helped them thrive. Discover how their values have fueled their success and how smart decisions have turned impact into income.
Guys, I'm your host. My name is Nate Littlewood and it's an absolute pleasure to have you here. In today's episode, I'm joined by Khushboo Saraf, who is the founder and CEO of Lattooland. Khushboo started her career working in finance with stints at Morgan Stanley and Citigroup, then spent about four years working at Amazon in product related roles.
Before she started her children's toy brand, Lattooland, which we'll be talking a little bit more about today. Anyway, Khushboo, welcome to the channel. It's great to have you here.
Khushboo Saraf (01:03)
thank you so much. Thanks Nate for the introduction. Thank you for having me over.
Nate (01:07)
Of course, Khushboo from what I understand you had a pretty good job at Amazon and probably a fairly stable paycheck. Based on our previous conversation, you also had a, you're a fairly new mother. Most people would have probably just stayed put in that situation. What was it that inspired you to go and start a hardware business in the middle of COVID?
Khushboo Saraf (01:37)
who takes me down the memory lane. To be honest, this is not something that was so pre-planned. As a new mother, I was just searching for toys for my kids, something to calm him down, something to help him engage, especially in the screen-free activities. It's no COVID time going on. You all own the screen-free activities. You're inbound and so on. And in the Indian market,
I couldn't find the sensory toys and that time my child had this habit of taking everything in the mouth. So I was looking for real safe toys that even if it takes into mouth does not create a problem. And that is where, know, as any mom would do, I just created something for my kid. So it was just, I was creating for my kid. And in the process, I realized that this is actually a gap in the market that I was filling. So I, you know, I come from a business family that bug of entrepreneurship.
It was always running in my blood, would say. know, everything kind of connected together. My entrepreneurship bug, would say, my love for art and craft, my motherhood, my job experience, my management experience, everything kind of came together. And that is how Lattooland was formed. So it was not, it's not just a business. It's like purpose-driven, you know, something.
passion driven, something that I wanted to really create for parents around. So yeah.
Nate (03:05)
Amazing. when it comes to child's toys and them putting things in their mouth, is it concerned about, is it about microplastics or chemicals or something else? What are the main hazards when it comes to children putting that sort of thing in their mouth?
Khushboo Saraf (03:22)
lot of things, you're right. Microplastics, chemicals, all of them. In fact, the choking hazard as well. So when you create something for the kids, has to, if one has to be age specific, secondly, it has to be developmental specific, something of course, you know, as any mother would want. But you know, when it comes to food for the child, are, as mothers or as parents, we, we're so careful of giving just organic products to the kids, you know, will hunt down the market and get the best product.
When it comes to toys, we really don't have that control because kids have that habit of exploring through their mouth. know, kids need the safe toys and as parents, think we need the safe toys so we can be at peace.
Nate (04:03)
Yeah, totally, totally. Well, you've started this business in India, but you're now based in the US. And so you've got kind of an interesting cross continental perspective on things here. What is one cultural or operational difference that you've observed between India and the US that you think people don't talk about enough?
Khushboo Saraf (04:29)
Very interesting question. think India I've seen is a very relationship driven economy. know, most of our contracts, most of our conversations happen over tea, which is chai, the Indian tea, you know. So yeah, if you have to do something, you can call up the person, get the things done. It's a very relationship driven economy, as I said, versus US, which I'm seeing is more value oriented, value driven economy.
That's one cultural difference that I have noticed. Operationally, I see that, you know, there's this lot of hustling in India, just given the growing economy, ever evolving economy that India is currently in. There's a lot of hustling attitude that is required to kind of navigate through. While US, I feel, is a very process oriented economy, just by the nature of it.
So yeah, I think these two are very stocking differences that at least I have observed, you know, navigating between the two economies.
Nate (05:32)
Interesting, interesting. And I understand that you have a fairly large team based in India, 15 people is what I think you mentioned before. Yeah. For a lot of US based founders, who are obviously, you know, paying us or local labor rates, like that would probably feel like quite a large team, especially when you're relatively early on. How
Khushboo Saraf (05:42)
It's like 15, yeah.
Nate (05:59)
Do you kind of keep track of that from over here and how do you get confidence that your team is actually creating value from day to day or month to month?
Khushboo Saraf (06:10)
So Nate, think as a founder, can relate, right? It's working remotely, of course, it does create that tension around you that how will you be able to manage the team and, how will you ensure that the team is working through the, to the right purpose and making things which is actually driving value, right? Doing things which is actually driving value. So same as a founder, I also felt so, but what I've realized that with the right side set of
communication if we give to the team and very clear communication if we give to the team and also the processes. If we set the right processes, this really kind of helps the team to move in a right direction. clear communication, right processes and then the review. So these three elements really has helped me navigate this because the team feels empowered. The team
can run the show. It is just me, you know, I really help them when they are blocked somewhere to kind of help them unblock and move ahead. So that pretty much is my job. yeah, communication I felt is the key in all these.
Nate (07:20)
Interesting. Okay, cool. And with so many different priorities, I mean, you're managing a in India, you're trying to figure out how to grow in the US, you've got Amazon, you've got your own e-comm site. One of the things that I can distinctly remember about being a founder is that on any given day, I would typically have 10 or 20 times more priorities and things to do than I actually had time to be able to do. How do you navigate that and how do you decide what's important when there isn't the time or the budget to be able to do everything?
Khushboo Saraf (08:01)
Yes, totally echo with you. think it's all the balls juggling in there and then you'll have to see which one to kind of catch, right? Very difficult. In the initial days, I struggled a lot, to be honest. And even I was thinking, you know, how to do is still a struggle a lot with setting up the right priorities. But two things, if I look back, has really helped one given I come from Amazon.
I have really learned the art of process management and I am a big hustler. Just like that runs in me as a DNA, but I had to undo that, unlearn that hustling part as we grew to become more process oriented. And that kind of comes from my Amazon experience, which has really helped me want to put things in process and then kind of, you know, take a back step and
delegate that task to someone else. That is one. The second bit that has really helped me is that, I don't know if, have you read this book Bullet Journal?
Nate (09:08)
no, I haven't.
Khushboo Saraf (09:10)
I highly recommend this book. this is why I think, right. Your Carol, this book really changed my perspective on the prioritization. So it has a very beautiful way of basically setting up the goals for say five years, two years, one year. So you work backwards in the timeline. You see, you have to set your goal for say one year where you look
yourself one year down the line and then you kind of break it into different parts. So you then go to six months, three months. So you decide what is adding value and it kind of really answers and gives you the right priority set that you should follow. So I've been doing this for I would say one and a half years now. This bullet journaling method has really helped me in the prioritization. yeah, I would highly recommend that.
Nate (10:02)
Interesting. I'd love to learn a little bit more about this Amazon process, know, stuff that you learned there. Can you give me some examples of how, you know, you as an ex Amazon employee may have approached certain, you know, tasks or problems or situations that a CPG or e-comm founder would encounter? Like how would you approach that differently versus, you know,
how would you do it? Have you never worked at Amazon if you were lacking that experience, let's say.
Khushboo Saraf (10:34)
I can't imagine myself to be honest if I hadn't worked in Amazon. I would just be hustling around but Amazon really taught me the art of process management and when it comes to that you know couple of examples that I can give you is the regular check-ins. Amazon has this beautiful way of weekly check-ins, monthly check-ins and it's a very document
document driven company where you have to write everything. So very writing driven, would say, you know, everything that you kind of think of, you write it down and then it gives you that clarity how to move ahead. So that bit, if you have an idea, you would write it down, you would think you'll break it down into different pieces. You'll break it down into a project plan into different sub areas. So that just Excel and a Word doc that itself is required. Nothing more, no fancy tools.
But that really helps you understand how to do which is that first task you need to crack in order to move to your bigger goal. So that bit and then the weekly check ins, how do you kind of take keep a track of your business at a weekly level, at a monthly level, even you know, planning at say, a quarterly or a yearly level. So again, ties back to the bullet journaling method also very similar. But these two have really helped me.
You kind of manage it through. Sorry.
Nate (11:58)
Yeah. Okay. Cool. I appreciate the explanation there. So obviously going from a stable paycheck at somewhere like Amazon into the world of startups has, I presume, had a pretty big impact on both the stability and probably the magnitude of your paycheck. Can you tell me a little bit about how your relationship with finances and money has evolved as you've been on this journey?
Khushboo Saraf (12:30)
that's a very good question. Okay. I think, Nate, you would also relate, right? You're one of the fractional CFOs and I would see that you would see other founders doing that. But having said that, it's so very different when you're working versus when you're running a company. When you're working in a job, is a stable, there's a fixed income that comes to your bank account every month or at
certain frequencies so there is you know x amount that comes y is what you spend and then x minus y is what you save and you know that pretty much is so there's a lot of planning probability you know where you would be probably you know when you're down the line two years down the line when it comes to entrepreneurship I think there is so much variability and sometimes even a question mark
So it's not just about money, is I think about cash flow at the end of it, because you have to have that continuous churn of cash flow, which is needed to maybe make that working capital, manage the expenses of the employees or suppliers or anything for that matter, right? So yeah, it's more of cash flow. And another thing that I've noticed, you know, when I was in job, you kind of relate your self-worth with your net worth most of the time.
But when you come to entrepreneurship, really cannot do that. These are two different things completely.
Nate (14:02)
that is, I mean, I don't mean to pry here. Is that because the net worth took a hit and you didn't want to see your self worth, you know, go down with it? mean, is that what you're saying?
Khushboo Saraf (14:13)
Yes, yes, it will, right? Because I mean, especially in a bootstrapped company, because you are investing and then that investment reaps your fruits somewhere down the line. It will take some time to give you that ROI. and there are a lot of days when you will literally be picking yourself up because things are not going right. So it is like that sine curve. And if every time you start calculating your net, your self-worth with the net worth,
in the back or over on the network, I don't think it will help you grow in the longer run.
Nate (14:48)
Yeah, totally. So you're absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I went from a fairly stable and, you know, fairly substantial paycheck in investment banking to go and start an e commerce business. And, know, I was getting paid nothing for the first couple of years, even by the time that we were able to start paying ourselves a salary, like
Khushboo Saraf (14:50)
It has happened to you as well?
Nate (15:15)
You know, it was not predictable. It was not stable. There were times a year when we needed to put that money into inventory. And, you know, if you've got a choice between, stocking up for Christmas and getting the inventory you need or paying yourself, you know, the salary that you'd like to have, then yeah, it becomes discretionary, which is tough. Definitely really hard. I get it. I get it. I get it. Yeah. So you're building a business in, you know, the, the child.
care or child toys sector. And I guess this category one might describe as a, you know, a lot of people are making fairly emotional decisions. You know, people are often willing to pay a lot and, you know, sort out very intentional products when they're purchasing for their kids. What are some of the pressures that that creates for you that other people may not appreciate or,
could not be, may not be obvious to us.
Khushboo Saraf (16:17)
Well, this industry is so very different from the other industry because think of it. A child is one of the most treasured part of a parent's world. So you are creating for kids and the childhood as well. one, you have to ensure that the products are really safe for the kids.
rigorous lab testing. Secondly, you have to ensure that the products are developmentally appropriate for the kids because kids are going through a rapid phase of brain development, rapid phase of overall development. Like 90 % of the brain development of a kid happens by the age of five. So very important as to what you are developing, how you're really adding value. And also you have to create something, you know, which helps in
making that childhood even better, making right, like beautiful memories along the childhood for parents and kids both. So that is one, you know, a lot of pressure as a founder or someone who's creating the products for kids to ensure that it kind of fits in all these buckets. And the other thing is an industry that have observed is
You know, most industries have these repeat users, like if you are having say a soap business or maybe a hair care business, something like that, right? You will have repeat customers, most of them coming to you because they're using that product on a daily basis. think of a child, a child is evolving, a child is growing continuously. And so are the child's needs. So if you are creating something, say for an age group of zero to one year or a six month old,
that may not be appropriate for say a two year old. So your customer retention changes versus you know what other industries would see and you know as a company how do you sail through or what do you do it depends on your company's strategy but it's very different from other companies is what I've observed especially other industries.
Nate (18:22)
Interesting, interesting. So it actually raises a really interesting question from an e-commerce financial math perspective, which is that you have an interesting choice to make, which is that you could pursue breadth with your product strategy and try to have more products and more offers and more points at which people can enter your business or become customers of your business and make their initial purchase.
The other choice that you have is that you could go deep and say, okay, I want to pursue repeat purchases with the customers that I already have. And yes, I might have a toy for a one year old, but then I'm going to have a toy for a two year old and a three year old and a four year old. And you could keep selling the same child or the same parent, different toys as the child ages. How do you think about that?
And, you know, what is the right payoff between breadth and having more products to start versus depth and trying to, you know, maintain a longer relationship with a single customer.
Khushboo Saraf (19:32)
It's a very good question. How we started as a company was more to focus on the sensory toys with educational blend in it. So we wanted to first cover the sensory aspect of overall toy industry. And that is what our earlier focus has been till now. But as we are growing, of course, we will also need to cover the breadth of it, which means, you know,
covering different age group of the children as well as we go. you know, strategy could change as we grow. yeah, until now, we've been following mostly the, the sensory the depth of the education and the sensory toys mostly for you know, zero to eight years. But yeah, as you grow, and once you have probably covered one sector, you can definitely go to another. So it depends, founder to founder, company to company, how the company looks itself. And I think more of it
what's the overall purpose of the company, right?
Nate (20:33)
Mm hmm. Interesting. Okay, cool. So you, like me, we're both from a finance bracket and you spend a little bit of time at at city and so what was the other bank you're at?
Khushboo Saraf (20:47)
I was at Bonnet Stanley for a brief period of time but city is where I was for almost three plus years, yeah.
Nate (20:54)
Got it. Got it. So you had, you had a bit of time working in the finance industry. So you know your way around spreadsheets and numbers. I distinctly, I distinctly remember an experience I had a few years back when I was mentoring at an accelerator program. And I'd be talking to these founders and you know, trying to help them solve whatever marketing or operational problem they had. And it would inevitably get to the point in the conversation where
we would be talking about solutions and kind of next steps. And I'd ask these founders, tell me a little bit about your finances. Like how much can you afford? Can you afford a hundred dollar solution or a $10,000 solution? And I just get these blank faces time and time again. And I remember thinking it was such a shame that you had the smart, capable, well-intentioned founders who wanna...
able to get the financial and just the mentoring help that they wanted or needed because they didn't understand this language of finance. After a bit more reflection, came to eventually realize and it dawned on me just how much I had taken for granted my own background in finance because there were a lot of parts of, I'll be honest with you, there are many, many parts of being a founder and CEO that I struggled with, but finance was not one of them.
my guess is that you may have had a similar experience. What are some of the things that you see as a founder with that finance background that you think other founders who do not have that financial background could be missing or maybe they're getting wrong?
Khushboo Saraf (22:39)
Well, I'm not sure on the, think you're very close to working with other founders. So you will probably be able to give that perspective better. my understanding, at least what I do, I can talk about, you know, how I manage the finances. Mostly what I've given the financial background again, I think I like to be on the top of my numbers as to where it is. And as I said, right, more than
anything else, what I've realized working as a founder is the cash flow, the working capital, which kind of really keeps you on your toes. So those things are, and I started really appreciating it, that how much of it, when it really comes to deploying it and how do you use it, it's a very different phenomena compared to what you study in a book, right? So it's so very different. You start appreciating the beauty of finance.
So I personally am very fond of, you know, numbers and I also ensure that I understand where we are on a weekly or a monthly basis. I'll always be looking at numbers. Sometimes to be honest, it gets to a level where I have to stop to be honest. But yes, I like to be there. As I said, I'm not sure on the other founders, but maybe that could be something that made be a struggle with others. What do you think?
Nate (24:08)
I, I encounter founders with a very wide range of relationships when it comes to finances. And I've kind of identified maybe four different phases. The first phase is when people are in a complete, denial phase, right? They, don't want to look at them. It's like.
Don't know, don't care. Like it tells, I just want to go live my life and run my business the way am. And I'm going to completely ignore the finances. The next phase after that is usually a bit of a phase typified by like overwhelm. So, you you've tried to have a look at them, but you know, there's a, it's really confusing. You don't understand. None of it makes sense. And a lot of people, you know, will regress back.
to phase one after that and they won't progress any further. Phase three, I would say is when I would call it the intrigue phase and in phase three, people start to, by now they've probably got a bookkeeper or accountant, they're probably on accrual rather than cash-based accounting and they're starting to realize that there could be something interesting hidden in those numbers. They don't quite know what it is yet or they don't know really how to, you
make sense of it, but they're starting to feel that there's something intriguing there. And then I would say the final phase, let's call it the enlightenment phase is when you suddenly, you know, this is when the penny drops and you start to see things that you'd never seen before. You start to make observations that you were completely unaware of. And at this phase, you know, some of these observations and things we can get out of our finances.
can start to have a material impact on the strategy or the direction of the business. know, I sometimes work with founders and I'll say, hey, you you know how this, you thought it was great that you're spending all this money on Amazon or wholesale or whatever. I hate to break it to you, but you're actually losing money there. And I think you should be investing your time and effort here instead. So let's kind of change gears a little bit because this looks much more promising if you go down this path.
Yeah, I guess.
Khushboo Saraf (26:35)
That's interesting, right?
Nate (26:37)
Yeah, I encounter people right along that spectrum.
Khushboo Saraf (26:43)
Does it depend on like the stage of the business you are in or have you seen it across different stages as well?
Nate (26:50)
It totally depends on the stage. I mean, earlier stage founders are really just need to worry about product market fit, right? Like early on, it's about selling and product market fit. And frankly, until you've figured that out, it doesn't really matter what the finances say and investing in someone, you know, like a fractional CFO like me or even expensive bookkeeping is a bit of a waste of time. But typically,
what will happen after a couple of years of figuring out how to sell and figuring out product market fit is that people will start to make some traction and it's like, okay, this is starting to work. And then they'll go find a bookkeeper and accountant and go, my God, this is embarrassing. Look at this great big mess I have. Can you help me clean up the last year or two worth of numbers? Because, yeah, by the way, I need to file some tax returns. And so that'll be the next step. And I guess where I most commonly
cross paths with founders is after they've, you know, they've been at this for a few years. They've got, you know, a little bit of experience under their belt, but they've started to observe that there's a poor correlation between the time effort or, you know, mental energy that they're investing and their bank balance or the probability. It's like, why am I working so hard, but not getting paid?
Why am I putting all these hours in working weekends, blah, blah, but my bank balance stays the same. It's not going up. And it's usually at, you know, around that time when people come to realize that this is some sort of problem with the financial math and they're not getting the financial outcomes that they'd expected that they will come and find someone like me.
Khushboo Saraf (28:35)
Interesting. That's good. think a lot of founders at least I know struggle with this kind, right? Where the struggling is too because everyone is kind of putting the energy out there. But yeah, when it comes to getting that bank balance, yes. So yeah, good Nate. I think you're doing a great job helping the founders like this.
Nate (28:53)
Yeah, well, thank you. It's enjoyable work. It's enjoyable work. listen, you were talking about cash flow management earlier and working capital. And one of the biggest consumers of cash and a critical part of, you know, working capital in these sort of businesses is obviously inventory. Inventory is expensive. And you know, if not managed correctly, it can move slowly and tie up a lot of your resources.
I understand you had a bit of a fairly memorable event a few years ago with a large chunk of your inventory. Talk me through what happened and how you navigated out of that.
Khushboo Saraf (29:39)
So it was one of the nightmares, one of the most dreaded nights for me. We were sleeping and suddenly, think around 2am, the fire alarms started ringing all of a sudden. We were like, what happened? I remember we were on the 9th floor.
in an apartment and we were like, okay, first we kind of be quiet and then, know, suddenly went out and it's like raining cats and dogs and like what's happened really? And then we hear, you know, everyone just going down the stairs and then, know, the moment we went down, we saw that our entire basement was flooded up to the knee level. Can you even imagine?
I mean, have you seen any flood situation ever?
Nate (30:38)
I have, yes, not in my own basement, thank God, but yeah.
Khushboo Saraf (30:44)
Yes, you have seen so I mean, think of it that flood in your basement, right? And we were in the middle of a movement. We were moving our inventory from one place to another. And we had kept some of my inventory in my parking lot, which was in the basement effectively. I went down the stairs quickly when I heard this and I was in knee deep water. It was dark all around and my inventory was floating there.
And it was like, it was very initial and I had to literally, I was literally picking up things from there and trying to get that up on ninth floor, know, how much ever I could pick up and you know, my husband and I, and we were doing that and oh my God, I don't even want to remember that. But it was, it was, I would say like real and nightmare.
One of the dreadest nights that I've ever had, I would never want it again in my life. the worst part was that you obviously, couldn't save any of it. If you think of it, you know, because the water was already there for two hours, three hours there, and it was raining. And, know, by the time we got up and those were many cardboard boxes and packaging and all those things, which really got destroyed and damaged.
So we couldn't really use them and I had one of my pop-ups two days later in a different city and I had to also prepare for that. yeah, that was the event and it was, I think, six months or eight months I had to start the business and so that was the timeline and you can imagine, you know,
how vulnerable as a founder you are and you you got an open job, it's like, nice, you were in a very nice, good environment and then suddenly you are in this, like what are doing really?
Nate (32:47)
Yeah. It's particularly brutal. I'm not, I'm not sure about your experience, but when you think about things like that in the context of, know, what it represented in terms of your previous salary, like you're looking at this inventory and to, know, anyone else that might be, Hey, just a bunch of random products in boxes. But to you as the founder, like, my God, that was like, you know, half a many months worth of my previous salary at my, my whole job. Like I know how much.
work it takes to build that stuff and how much it's worth. It's strange how emotionally attached you can become to your inventory as a founder. going through an experience like that, going through an experience like that, which must've been absolutely devastating. How do you pull yourself together and show up the next day and lead and...
Khushboo Saraf (33:35)
Totally.
Nate (33:44)
be the manager, CEO, founder that your team needs you to be.
Khushboo Saraf (33:50)
It's very difficult moment, know. As a founder, think what I've learned is that the biggest art and the biggest thing you can do is to pick yourself up when absolutely no one is watching you. No one is clapping for you. And yeah, that's where you gather that courage and still run the show. So I had my team waiting for me. I had the set of customers who I had promised I'll be there for, for my pop-up. And I had my little one watching me amidst all these chaos. I think that itself was sufficient and I had a purpose more than anything else. I was doing this business for a purpose, for my passion, right? To really bring that peace to the parents. And I think that itself was sufficient, Nate. There was nothing more. That
Nate (34:29)
Yeah.
Khushboo Saraf (34:48)
gave me the courage to pick myself up to gather that courage and move on and run it. It's okay. I've lost it. But yeah, I'll make it again. And that's that's the strength.
Nate (35:04)
Interesting. So if I'm, I'm hearing you correctly, then if this business and the product wasn't so, you know, purposeful and purposefully, you know, motivated for you, like, for example, you were just selling some, you know, meaningless widget that you didn't really care less about. Do you think you would have been able to recover the same way?
Khushboo Saraf (35:27)
I don't think so really don't think so. And you know, I had always heard I've read also in books that the business should be based on purpose and your passion. And I'd always thought that, know, just like that, that they talk about it, you know, to make it look fancy and so on. But believe me, I have lived this. And these were the moments where all these things come to test.
where you know if you don't have the purpose if you don't have that passion you're right it's very difficult to run it again because it's very easy to give up you know you have you can always say that you know i can go back to the job i can do that again why why am i really doing this i mean that question does pop up
I'm sure, you know, as a founder, you would have witnessed this as well in many phases that, know, why that why question when that pops up in your mind and in situations like this, when you're going through a chaos, the purpose hits you, the passion hits you.
Nate (36:32)
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Um, I guess what I'm hearing is that, you know, that, that purpose is a, is a fuel. It's a fire as a source of energy. And, know, it keeps you going where without it, you would have run into a wall and probably given up a lot, a lot earlier. Is there any other notable obstacles or impediments in your journey that you feel like you have been able to move through because of that sense of purpose and the mission that you've had?
Khushboo Saraf (37:06)
I mean, I think it's about evolving yourself. As a founder, I felt I started knowing myself more. So it's a very self reflection journey is what I found as you know, in these four years, I think I've rediscovered myself and done a lot of things to kind of build myself in a better way in a positive way.
It could be mental strength, could be physical strength, spiritually, you know, how do you move forward? I think all these areas are something that I have particularly worked on as a founder, as a human being in the last four years. So yeah, that is something I would say.
Nate (37:58)
Yeah. Entrepreneurship and being a founder is definitely going to force you into a different and accelerated personal journey. I'd love to, I'd love to double click on that. How much of this evolution or transition that you just mentioned, how much of that do you think was stuff that you were forced to do? And you know,
the reality of entrepreneurship just slapped you in your face and said, Hey, Khushboo, like you need to change because the way you've been operating historically is just not working. So wake up and evolve. Versus how much of it do you think you've been proactive about? You know, things where maybe you've discovered things or seen things or had a change of perspective and you've realized, huh, maybe there's an opportunity here for me to do things differently.
Khushboo Saraf (38:55)
well, I'll be brutally honest. I think it slaps you. does. Yeah. And you realize that in this society, we kind of very glorify that, you know, you keep working nonstop. You don't care about what you're eating. You don't care about your health, how much you're sleeping and all those things. And it's all glorified all across. And then the reality slaps you.
Nate (39:02)
I'll you in the face.
Khushboo Saraf (39:24)
You know, like, Hey, yes, you can do it for a couple of days. Maybe you're going to stretch it for months, but can you really do it for years and still run the show? healthy mentally and physically healthy, because the kind of decisions you have to take the kind of things you have to do both physically and mentally, right? You have to be sound enough to do that. And in order to do that, you have to kind of focus on it.
You have to focus on your physical regime as to what you're doing to keep yourself physically healthy. Then you have to also focus on how can you take up more, you know, are you mentally resilient enough? those things, when it comes to you, you have to, you know, work on it. So I, for me, was
Practically, would say a little slap only, than being curious and learning. was more like, listen, you have to understand, you have to become more mentally resilient. Otherwise, how will you navigate? And yeah, I find it very good. Now that I look back in the hindsight, yes, it all sounds good. I think I'm a better human being than I was probably four years back.
Nate (40:36)
Interesting. So I have another question for you. How long have you been in the US now? It's a couple of years, is that right?
Khushboo Saraf (40:46)
On the strip. Two years, yeah.
Nate (40:48)
Okay, almost two years. Okay. So you've, spent enough time here to get to know and understand a little bit about us culture. by comparison, I'm sure there's many things where Indian culture is very, very different. And I mean, I'm, thinking about your relation. You mentioned earlier, you know, being very relationship based and I think Indian culture is very different in of their relationship with, things like spirituality. Are there any.
aspects of Indian culture or Indian ways of doing business or entrepreneurship that you think maybe American entrepreneurs could learn from? there aspects of the way that you did things in India that could be valuable to other founders in other parts of the world?
Khushboo Saraf (41:42)
I think, just thinking aloud, so two things. So one, I think you have to be, in India we prefer, as I said, a very human touch to things. when it comes to about doing any business with say, Indian suppliers or Indian customers, right?
we focus on that relationship. How are you really delivering the value through by creating that beautiful bond and relationship. So that bit I do carry here as well. And but I think people are same everywhere, you know, everyone values that as you know,
Everyone values a warm smile. Everyone values that warm conversation. yeah, I think that aspect just because we've been doing it that way, if we carry it over here as well, I think people do like it. That's what I've observed. And secondly, since you talked about the spirituality, you know, as in India, we do have a lot of focus on all these things, the spirituality and you know,
taking care of your mental health as well. I personally, while I'm not so religious, I do focus on spirituality a lot. That kind of gives me mental strength and re-centering yourself amidst the chaos. So literally I have found comfort in chaos. And that is not by just being myself, but by, you know, kind of doing that focus.
You can say chanting, meditation, whatever works for anyone. But as a founder, I feel you should always have something to anchor on. It really helps. And you could be a founder anywhere for that reason. And, but there should be something, something that you could anchor on. could be a belief, conviction, whatever you might want to say. There could be different terms to it, but it helps you power through. yeah.
Nate (43:46)
Yeah, totally. Yeah. mean, entrepreneurship and being a founder is a roller coaster. It's, I suspect, probably one of the hardest things that you can do professionally, at least. There's often, people deal with burnout, people deal with mental health struggles, don't know whether you've encountered any of that stuff, but
What are some of the things that you have perhaps had to unlearn in order to be a successful founder?
Khushboo Saraf (44:26)
Well, apart from what I talked about, right? Just that taking care of your both physical and mental health and don't take it for granted. think one or other thing probably I would like to add is don't try to do it all. I tried that in my initial years, you know, I'll do everything by myself and then, know, kind of go ahead. It really doesn't help. You have to set up processes. You have to
mature things and kind of give it to someone else to lead through. So that really helps. You have to start trusting folks around you to help you. So create a support system in whatever way you want to in terms of your team, in terms of whoever can cheer for your business, either the sidelines or however. And yeah, I think someone to help you walk through that difficult journey.
Nate (45:24)
Totally, Okay, very interesting. You've given me a lot to think about here, Khushboo, a lot to ponder. I have really appreciated the conversation. yeah, taught me a lot about cultural differences. You've taught me about systems and processes and the value of...
using them and how you've applied what you learned at Amazon to your role as a founder here. And I think your cultural perspective on entrepreneurship is really interesting as well. You dropped a number of things here, kind of comparing and contrasting the Indian or the Eastern view versus the Western view, which have been really interesting to talk about. So I appreciate it.
Khushboo Saraf (46:17)
so much. I learned a lot from you as well. I the kind of four phases. I'm also thinking upon it you know and probably you know at certain point I was also thinking yeah maybe I was in those phases as well you know after doing everything.
Nate (46:31)
Yes. Well, I hope you're making progress there. But listen, if anyone would like to learn more about you or get in touch, I'm going to include some of these links in the show notes below. But is there anywhere particular people should go to get in touch or learn more about you?
Khushboo Saraf (46:50)
Yeah, so our products, the educational sensitive products for kids, they are available on our website, which is www.lattooland.com. And yeah, you can spell it out on the screen.
you know, they can also buy it on Amazon, either in US or India, wherever they want, or our website, whatever works. And yeah, if they want to reach out to me, they can either reach out to me on LinkedIn or my email id [email protected]. Yeah.
Nate (47:22)
Okay, perfect. Well, thank you again, Khushboo. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on. Hope you have a fantastic weekend and we'll be...
Khushboo Saraf (47:29)
Thank you so much, Nate, for having me over. was a beautiful conversation. A lot of things even I thought upon, know, just talking to you so great.
Nate (47:41)
Fantastic, fantastic.
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